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Giuliani and the truth
Aug. 20th, 2018 10:28 pmSo, much has been made recently about Giuliani's comment "the Truth isn't the truth".
This phrase, much like "It depends on what your definition of is is" has been taken quite a bit out of context.
The complete line, and what he is trying to say, is even more insidious and more dishonest than his little gaffe in wording would imply.
From the Washington Post: [1]
The sentence makes a bit more sense in context. But, let's take a look at the rest of that. "so tell me what the truth is." I don't know what the truth is. I have a strong suspicion of what the truth is, but I don't actually *know*. But the fact that I, or Todd, doesn't currently know what the truth is doesn't mean there *isn't* truth. If trump says one thing and Comey says another, it doesn't mean that therefore neither of them is telling the truth. One of them is. Whether or not trump spoke about Flynn to Comey is a discoverable fact. Discovering who is telling the truth, and what the facts actually are, is the whole point of having an investigation and, hopefully, a trial.
Giuliani goes on to say [2] "We have a credibility gap between one and the other. Now you gotta select one or the other. Now who do you think Mueller's going to select?" and implies that because Mueller likes Comey and doesn't like trump he's going to "choose" that Comey is telling the truth.
Which isn't how perjury works. Not even close. In order to charge trump with perjury, a prosecutor would have to prove:
1. That what he said wasn't true.
2. That he knew it wasn't true.
3. That what he said was material to the case at hand.
A prosecutor doesn't get to just decide that someone is lying and convict them of perjury. For trump to commit perjury when speaking to Mueller he would have to intentionally lie to him, and Mueller would have to prove that he did so.
Of course, if he's guilty as I believe, he wouldn't be able to answer questions without lying, and the investigation has a lot of information already, so it probably wouldn't be hard to prove that he lied.
Giuliani is a lawyer and would therefore be fully aware of what perjury is, and isn't. Which means he's lying to Todd (and, by extension, to us). (He's not committing perjury because an interview isn't a court of law.) So why is he lying? Because, like trump, there's no way he can tell the truth. He doesn't want trump to testify because he believes he's guilty and incapable of telling the truth. He just doesn't want you to know that.
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[1] Link to Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/giuliani-on-hazards-of-trump-interview-truth-isnt-truth/2018/08/19/800b00da-a3fc-11e8-ad6f-080770dcddc2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d5ca28ad619b
[2] Video of the interview (I couldn't find a good transcript): https://deadline.com/2018/08/truth-isnt-truth-meet-the-press-exchange-with-rudolph-giuliani-devolves-1202448166/
This phrase, much like "It depends on what your definition of is is" has been taken quite a bit out of context.
The complete line, and what he is trying to say, is even more insidious and more dishonest than his little gaffe in wording would imply.
From the Washington Post: [1]
When Todd replied: “Truth is truth,” Giuliani responded: “No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth. . Donald Trump says, ‘I didn’t talk about Flynn with Comey.’ Comey says, ‘You did talk about it,’ so tell me what the truth is.”
The sentence makes a bit more sense in context. But, let's take a look at the rest of that. "so tell me what the truth is." I don't know what the truth is. I have a strong suspicion of what the truth is, but I don't actually *know*. But the fact that I, or Todd, doesn't currently know what the truth is doesn't mean there *isn't* truth. If trump says one thing and Comey says another, it doesn't mean that therefore neither of them is telling the truth. One of them is. Whether or not trump spoke about Flynn to Comey is a discoverable fact. Discovering who is telling the truth, and what the facts actually are, is the whole point of having an investigation and, hopefully, a trial.
Giuliani goes on to say [2] "We have a credibility gap between one and the other. Now you gotta select one or the other. Now who do you think Mueller's going to select?" and implies that because Mueller likes Comey and doesn't like trump he's going to "choose" that Comey is telling the truth.
Which isn't how perjury works. Not even close. In order to charge trump with perjury, a prosecutor would have to prove:
1. That what he said wasn't true.
2. That he knew it wasn't true.
3. That what he said was material to the case at hand.
A prosecutor doesn't get to just decide that someone is lying and convict them of perjury. For trump to commit perjury when speaking to Mueller he would have to intentionally lie to him, and Mueller would have to prove that he did so.
Of course, if he's guilty as I believe, he wouldn't be able to answer questions without lying, and the investigation has a lot of information already, so it probably wouldn't be hard to prove that he lied.
Giuliani is a lawyer and would therefore be fully aware of what perjury is, and isn't. Which means he's lying to Todd (and, by extension, to us). (He's not committing perjury because an interview isn't a court of law.) So why is he lying? Because, like trump, there's no way he can tell the truth. He doesn't want trump to testify because he believes he's guilty and incapable of telling the truth. He just doesn't want you to know that.
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[1] Link to Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/giuliani-on-hazards-of-trump-interview-truth-isnt-truth/2018/08/19/800b00da-a3fc-11e8-ad6f-080770dcddc2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d5ca28ad619b
[2] Video of the interview (I couldn't find a good transcript): https://deadline.com/2018/08/truth-isnt-truth-meet-the-press-exchange-with-rudolph-giuliani-devolves-1202448166/
