plutherus | Entries tagged with debate

So, final thoughts?

If this was all I'd heard of Kamala Harris, I'd wanna just skip Biden and vote for her. I like the platform (mostly. It doesn't go nearly far enough, but there's nothing backwards in it, unlike the opposition's).

I'll confess I enjoyed watching her repeatedly put Pence down and watching him just stand there quietly during those times he was able to do so. He's not his boss so he doesn't know how to suck all the oxygen out of the room like trump does.

I liked her straightforward answers, without trying to be everything to everyone.

As for Pence? He was more out of touch than I expected. He had a lot of catchphrases which he's been repeating to his base at speaking engagements on the church circuit for the last few years but nothing we haven't heard on Fox News. I do kind of live in a bubble so forget there are people who buy into those and for whom such shallow rhetoric resonates. But telling people that Christians are the most persecuted people ever doesn't really strike a chord outside the specific type of churches he repeats it in. Same with scary words like "Green New Deal" and "Communist China" and the various phrases he spouted I pointed out at the time.

He lied a lot about his record, and hers, as I expected. She called him on several of them. I'm sure there'll be lots of fact-checked reports up soon about them so I'm not going to bother here. As expected, he wasn't able to give any specifics or tell people what his plan was. This administration doesn't have a plan. This administration doesn't know how to make a plan. That's what happens when every single person you associate with is chosen for personal loyalty rather than for competence.

Hopefully, they'll get voted out in a month. We'll see. They're still pulling out all the stops to suppress as much of the vote as possible, including blatantly encouraging illegal acts from their followers. Also, they've managed to get rid of verification systems on computer voting in many key counties. Will it be enough? I'm guessing at this point all their dirty tricks added together won't tilt the vote by more than 10-15% in their favor. So if we win by more than that, they won't be able to do anything. I hope Biden actually prosecutes the crimes of this administration, though, and not drop them like his boss did because he wanted to "focus on the future of the country, not dredge up the past." The problem is, if there's no punishment for criminal activity of this magnitude, we'll end up going through all of this again in four more years.

Page: Final question (Finally!). From a student: “When I watch the news, all I see is arguing. If our leaders can’t get along, how are our citizens supposed to get along. Your examples could bring us together. What will you do?”
Pence: Good question. I started following the news when I was very young. (Seriously? That’s how you want to start?) We believe in free and open debate. Don’t assume what you see is the American People. RGB and Scalia were polar opposites, but we have learned they were actually friends. We come together as Americans. Says THE AMERICAN PEOPLE again. “We love a good argument, but always come together.”

Harris: I love hearing from our young leaders. Your perspective is a sign of leadership. Joe decided to run after Charlottesville – he saw hate, division, and wanted to heal that. It’s been getting worse for four years. Biden has a history of working across the aisle. The future is bright because of leadership of people like you That’s why we want EVERYBODY to vote.

Page: Final issue.
Harris: He attacked my record. I want to respond.
Page: Fine. You have 30 seconds.

Harris: I did great stuff. Our agenda includes (same stuff from above)
Mod: Stops her.
Harris: Nope. Still going. I initiated implicit bias training, because it does exist, and I instituted body cameras for all police in California, and I instituted re-entry reforms, and “I will not be lectured by this man.”

Page: Trump has refused to commit himself to peaceful transfer of power. What would you do if he refuses?
Harris: We are proud of our coalition. Including support from members of W’s cabinet and 500 generals. Biden will fight for integrity of our democracy. So, everybody Vote please. Vote vote vote. We will not allow anyone to suppress the vote like trump openly did during the debate last week.

Page: What will you do if trump refuses to transfer power?
We’re going to win. “Trump has launched a movement of ever day Americans from every walk of life.” They will see his record and vote for him and we stand with THE MEN AND WOMEN OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. You tried to overturn the results of the last election. You spied on our campaign, and you put the country through impeachment over a perfect phone call. (Dude, this isn’t Fox News. You can’t just repeat your favorite catch phrases.) We’re going to win this election and prevent them from changing the rules and and and and blah blah blah. He won’t lose therefore he won’t commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he does.

Mod: Breonna Taylor: None indicted. Was justice done?
Harris: No. (Wow! Not even a wavering equivocation. I really wasn’t expecting that from her, even now.) Her family deserves justice. Her life was taken unjustifiably.
Then she brings up Floyd, and the protests. “We are not going to condone violence, but we must always fight for our values. We absolutely need reform.” Mentions that her plan (unlike trump, she has one) will Ban choke holds, create a national registry of bad cops, and remove all private prisons and cash bail, and will decriminalize marijuana and expunge records of everyone convicted for it. (Damn! I had no idea they actually had a strong stance against private prisons. No wonder there’s so much money rallied against them.)

Pence: (Same Q). “I trust our justice system”. A grand jury looking at all the evidence couldn’t have gotten it wrong. Also, justice will be served for Floyd. But there’s no reason for rioting and looting. He has another audience member/prop here. Her business was burned down in the riots. He tries to seem emotional about it. Fails. Says Biden says the system is racist, but that’s a great insult to “The men and women of law enforcement” (he will never say “police”, it’s always “The Men And Women of Law Enforcement”)
“Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Your time is up, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President.”

Harris: “I will not be lectured by the Vice President about enforcing our laws. I’m the only one on this stage who has.” Mentions Criminals, bad banks, etc. Trump refused to condemn white supremacy. (biden interrupts – “That’s not true!” – like, uh, dude, we were all there, it was just last week.) Mentions some of the other racist things trump has said: Mexican rapists, “fine people” at Charlottesville, his attempted Muslim ban). THE AMERICAN PEOPLE deserve better.
Mod: Wanna respond?
Pence: No, she selectively edited his comments. Pence says he did condemn them at some point. Brings up trumps grandchildren who are Jewish. Says her record is bad. Trump fought for criminal justice reform, and she did nothing. She incarcerated more Black people than anybody, and only trump has not. (uhhh, what?)

Page: You said pre-existing conditions will be protected, but you’re currently fighting a court case to get rid of them. How will you keep them? (That’s the one thing nobody seems to ask these guys – HOW? How anything. Nobody asks, and they’ve never offered an answer. Even after four years of being in power, they can’t answer HOW they’re going to do any of these things they keep claiming they’ll be accomplishing Real Soon Now.)

Pence: “I couldn’t be more proud to stand with a president who believes in the sanctity of human life.” “They want to have taxpayer funding of abortion all the way up to birth.” (Not remotely true. She doesn’t say that as a person of faith she believes it’s a sin to bear false witness.) Says that there have been 29 supreme court justices confirmed in the final year of a presidential term. Then asks her: “Are you going to pack the court if Barret is confirmed?”

Harris: Thank you for the History lesson. In 1864, Lincoln was up for reelection. 27 days before election – Honest Abe said confirming someone at that time would be wrong. It should wait until after the election. “THE AMERICAN PEOPLE should decide” she says, quoting McConnel, but not giving him credit. Points out again that we aren’t just in an election year, we’re actually in an election. People have already started voting.
Pence: They’re going to pack the supreme court.
Harris: Let’s talk about packing the court, then. The trump administration has been packing courts with incompetent, substandard, ideologically driven white people. (Not a single black person in all their appointments? I want a fact check on that, too)

Pence: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE (Three times in once sentence)

Last topic: Supreme court. If Roe v Wade is overturned, would you want Indiana to ban all abortions?
Pence: Soleimani was responsible for hundreds of dead Americans. Trump took him out. Biden criticizes him for doing so. We need Commander in chief who won’t hesitate. (And that has what to do with Roe v Wade?)
We want Barret on the supreme court – brings a lifetime of experience (she has two years of experience, after McCain rammed her through into federal court)
We hope she gets a fair hearing unlike the horrible way you treated Kavanaugh (by asking him questions and implying that the Supreme Court seat he’d been promised was not actually guaranteed to him despite him doing everything the people putting him there told him to do.)
“We are disgusted by all these attacks on her Christian faith.” (No, Mr. Pence, Christians are not a persecuted minority in this country, no matter how much you tell your base otherwise.)
Times up, again, and he’s still babbling

Page: “Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President.”
What would you want California to do if Roe v Wade is overturned?
Harris: Points out that it’s “insulting to suggest we are attacking people of faith, as we are both people of faith.” Biden will be only the second Catholic President (She should have pointed out that the much loved JFK was the first.) We are IN an election now. This isn’t like it’s an election year, it’s an election going on now.
Finally, gets to the question: “Yes, I will always fight for a woman’s right to her own body, what she does is her decision, not Trump’s and not Pence’s.”
She brings up preexisting conditions again. 20 million people will lose their coverage. They are trying to get rid of ACA. Biden strengthens it. That’s pro-life. (She didn't literally drop a mike at this point, just figuratively)

Page: What’s your definition of the role of American leadership in 2020?
Harris: Foreign policy is relationships. Keep your word with your friends. Keep your adversaries in check. Trump has betrayed our friends and embraced dictators. I serve on the intelligence committee. Our intel says Russia interfered in election in 2016 and is doing it again now. Trump takes Putin’s word, ignores the intel. Iran is now building up nuclear arsenal, and trump’s unilateral approach is responsible. (We had a treaty that was keeping Iran from developing nuclear weapons, which trump unilaterally pulled out of) Harris reiterates honest relationships. “Donald doesn’t understand that, because he doesn’t understand honesty.”
Pence falls back on the macho swaggering his base loves: We strengthened our alliances. “We stood strong against those who would do us harm”. We destroyed ISIS. We brought to justice to the killers of (someone whose parents are in the audience today). Biden hesitated, and when they went in, she’d been moved and now she’s dead. Because of Obama. We destroyed ISIS. We got out of the bad Iran deal.
He keeps going on like this for a while. The moderator points out his time is past used up, and keeps repeating “Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Mr. Vice President.”

Harris points out, after the death of Suleiman, there was an attack, causing massive TBI among our troops, which trump dismissed as “headaches”. She brings up when he stood at Arlington and wondered “What’s in it for them?” Mentions calling them losers and suckers, and brings up all the stuff he’s said openly on the record, like his attacks on McCain and the “gold star” family.
Also brings up the Russian bounties and points out that trump has met with Putin six times since the news broke and has refused to bring it up with him.
Pence beats his chest a bit more (he’s not as good at the macho posturing as his boss is). Page lets him speak for a little while. Then she tries to explain the rules to him as he continues speaking (and lying).

Harris: On jobs, yeah, let’s talk about that. Trade war with china wasn’t an accomplishment – you lost that trade war. We lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs, and farmers experienced bankruptcy because of you. By the end of this administration, the THE AMERICAN PEOPLE will have lost more jobs than under almost any other president ever. (I noted she added “almost” in there, as Biden in his debate claimed they lost more jobs than any other president ever. Fact checkers pointed out that it wasn’t true. More were lost under president Hoover. So, trump is only in second place. So far.)

Pence: We lost?! (I think he’s unaware that they lost. He is not used to speaking to people who aren’t his base and haven’t bought all the administration propaganda already.) “Biden never fought it! He was a cheerleader for communist china.” (Yes, he said those exact words) We created 500,000 manufacturing jobs, didn’t lose any! (OK, now I want a fact check. How many jobs were lost/gained in reality?)

Pence takes credit for saving the auto industry.
Harris: Biden was responsible for saving the auto industry, and you voted against it.

Page: China – huge market, potential partner for dealing with N. Korea and Climate issues. How would you define our relationship?
Pence: NAFTA caused thousands of American jobs. Trump got rid of it. Harris voted against MCA, she put her Radical Environment Agenda ahead of THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and jobs.
She was the most liberal senator ever. More liberal than Bernie sanders. (Seriously, he made that claim. I think, once again, he is totally unused to speaking to anyone but his own flock and has no idea that his scare words don’t resonate with most Americans.)
Also, China is to blame for the virus. They didn’t let us in to monitor it. Trump suspended all travel from china. (None of that is true. But he keeps talking, despite repeated warnings/pleas from the moderator.)
Harris: The trump administration’s approach has lost American lives, jobs, and standing. Trump has this weird obsession with getting rid of all of Obama’s accomplishments. They got rid of the pandemic response team, and pulled out the team from china. Once again, mentions 210,000 dead. “Their trade war, as they wanted to call it, lost us 300k jobs and drove up price of many essential goods.” Standing? PEW research says foreign leaders hold Xi Jinping in higher esteem than trump.
Pence doesn’t try to argue with that. His facial expression was interesting there, when she said the Pew Research Center and said how well it was accepted. I’m guessing he doesn’t know what it is, but with the word “Pew” in the name, he’s not sure if he’s allowed to criticize it.

Page: What about climate change? We’ve had record hurricanes, both stronger and slower, and record wildfires. Do you believe this has to do with climate change as scientists say? (Hah! Not exactly a totally unbiased way to put it there. Good for her for pointing it out, though.)
Pence: We are very proud of our record. Water and air is cleaner than ever. They want the Green new deal! (He’s really reiterating that. I don’t think he realizes that most Americans don’t consider it the scare word that he considers it. He should say socialism instead. A lot of people are still afraid of that word.)
At least Pence admits that climate change exists, but of course he denies there’s a cause. Claims we have cleaner water and air than ever because of “The free market economy”. The American People can look at the record. Fossil fuel is innovation. Green New Deal is communism.
Time’s up, but he won’t stop talking, but says GREEN NEW DEAL and THE AMERICAN PEOPLE twice more each.

Mod: Biden says he doesn’t support GREEN NEW DEAL. Your web site says he does. What is your actual stance?

Harris:
- Says they won’t ban fracking. (He should!)
- Reiterates that the economic plan does not raise taxes on anyone under 400,000.
- Some of the 7 million new jobs it’ll create will be in clean energy.
- “We need facts – they took the words “science” and “climate change” off the web site as soon as they took office.” Trump says science doesn’t know about wild fires . (He also said rake the forest! She doesn’t mention that, though.)
- Will be carbon neutral by 2050. That’s not the same thing as eliminating fossil fuels.

Page: Harris says climate change is existential threat. Do you believe this?
Pence: Senator Harris is denying the fact that Biden will raise taxes on THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Also, you sponsored the GREEN NEW DEAL. She’s going to submit the people to the Paris Climate Accord! THE AMERICAN PEOPLE don’t believe that. The $2 trillion GREEN NEW DEAL will cripple America. Trump loves America.

Page: Job growth stalled, 11 million jobs are gone.
Then the UPS truck drove down our street, so whatever they said over the next couple of minutes was drowned out in a chorus of barking.
Page ends with: “Would raising taxes put job growth at risk?”

Harris: Economy depends on the workers and families. Trump believes you measure it based on how rich people are doing. Brought up 2 trillion dollar tax cut for the richest. Joe Biden will invest in infrastructure, including green energy, and innovation, science, research, development, education, etc. Free college if you make less than $250,0000

Cut student loan debt by 10k across the board. (Not enough! -Pat) (Everything else here is good. How can massive investment in a new industry NOT create more jobs?)

Pence: Claims that the trump tax cuts were across the board, and that he also raised wages, so the average family now makes $4,000 more than they otherwise would have. (I want a fact check on that. Also, on how much has cost of living increased over the last four years. I bet it’s a lot more than $4,000, especially if you have to buy insulin.)
Again, turns to the camera and intones “On Day One, Joe Biden is going to raise your taxes!”
Claims his administration added jobs. Says Biden wants to ban fracking (as if that’s a bad thing! But, for the record, Biden doesn’t. Even though he should.)
“We spared no expense to help workers through this.” Um, except, you know, the parts where they didn’t really do much to help workers and, along with McConnel, fought tooth and nail against every effort to do anything to help workers. Unless by “workers”, they mean “business owners”, which they might.
Then he brings up trump’s tariffs, and pretends they worked fabulously. Claims they won a trade war with China. Repeats that they want to abolish fossil fuels and “go back to economic surrender to China”.

Harris: “Debate should be based on facts.” Says that Biden will raise taxes on people who make over $400,000
Biden interrupts, repeatedly. Harris stops him.
“Mr. Vice president, I’m speaking”
“If you don’t mind letting me finish, we can have a conversation”
Pence claimed they turned the economy around.
Harris points out Biden wrote the recovery act that brought us out of great recession. Trump rode his coattails for his first couple of years then ended up creating the greatest recession since the great depression. (I want some fact checks on numbers here)

She also points out that the ACA kept a lot of families from going bankrupt with medical debt.
Mod calls time up. Harris points out “He interrupted me, and I’d like to finish. I will have equal time.” Mentions that the ACA created protection for people with pre-existing conditions.
Penmce: The American People know health care is a disaster. We promise to protect preexisting conditions. Doesn’t mention the court case currently going on where they’re trying to take away protections. Then he spews all the words that his followers find scary: The green new deal! Raise your taxes! Government Regulation! Banning fracking! And fossil fuels!”
“We will keep America growing. Four more years!” Right, Pence. It’s weird, he raves, but does it in a way that doesn’t sound like he’s raving like Donald does.

Page: What about basic health? Trump’s doctors lied multiple times (She may not have said “lied”. I think she just said, “issued multiple conflicting statements”.), Biden is silent. Is this info the voters need to know?
Pence: We have been moved by the prayers and concern of the American People. The care he received was exceptional. The same transparency will continue. (Heh – I guess that’s probably true. They will continue to lie just like they have). The American People are happy with what we’ve done. We trust the American People to make their own decisions.
Once again, doesn’t answer the question, pretends he doesn’t hear the accusation of lying.

Harris: Yes. That’s why Biden has released health records. And his taxes. (Take that, Mr. President!)
She brings up his debt of 400 million dollars, and says the American People have the right to know to whom he owes that money. (Doesn’t say “… and what he’s using his office for to pay them back.” But probably doesn’t really have to.)

Pence responded. The American People wanted a businessman. Trump is a businessman. (Not much of one, really, as we’ve seen from his tax returns! Harris doesn’t interrupt with this comment, but I did say it out loud to the TV myself.) He created tens of thousands of jobs for the American People. His businesses paid millions. (So they say, but won’t release the records).

My roommate: “You should keep tally of how many times he says The American People.”
Me: “I’ve already lost track”

Page: Brings up the Rose Garden events. That was an opportunity to showcase mask wearing and social distancing, to set an example for the American People. Why didn’t you? (Not quite how she phrased it. 
Pence : The American People have demonstrated the American People can prioritize their health and their loved ones. The American People made sacrifices. We Trust the American People. We believe in the freedom of the American People. (He really likes saying The American People a lot)
He doesn’t say anything about why they don’t lead and why they won’t set examples.
Pence: We care about the American People.
Harris: Caring for the American People involves telling them the truth.

Page: If trump approves a vaccine before November 3rd, will you take it?
Harris: If the health professionals say it’s safe and effective, I will happily be first in line. I definitely won’t if it’s only trump who says so.

Page: Whoever wins will be the oldest president America has ever had. Have you had a conversation with the president about what you will do if you have to resume his duties?
Pence: We’re going to have a vaccine. Stop playing politics with people’s lives. We will have a vaccine, and it’s your fault people won’t take it. The American People. What about Obama, and swine flu? That’s what failure looks like. Stop undermining confidence in the vaccine. (That’s not verbatim, but that’s about the cadence and content of his response.)

Harris answers with all her credentials – did a lot as AG of CA. Has had access to intelligence reports, was on senate committee. She speaks with him all the time, and is fully informed and ready to take over should she need to.

Onto the candidates!
Harris: The current administration is the biggest failure ever. (Wow! Not pulling punches on the start). She listed 210,000 dead. Millions unemployed. Brings up the fact that the administration was informed and knew how deadly the virus was. They knew what was happening, and not only didn’t tell anyone, they covered it up. The president said it was a hoax. “And now they STILL don’t have a plan. We do. This administration has forfeited their right to reelection”
(Damn, Senator! Straight up! Thank you for not weaseling.)

Page: (To Pence) 210,000 Americans have died of COVID-19. We have the highest rate of deaths of any other country. You are in charge of the national response. Why do we have the highest rate of death of any country?
Pence: “It’s a very challenging time. From the very first day, we put health first.”
Repeats trump’s claim that he was the first to take it seriously. Suspended all travel from china. (he didn’t) “Everyone agrees” (they don’t) that it would have been millions if he hadn’t taken such bold decisive action. “But we did it and had the greatest mobilization ever.” (They didn’t. He is lying)

Claims that because of trump, they “will have” tens of millions of doses of vaccines by the end of the year.
Doesn’t mention that every leading health expert disagrees with that assessment, or that it needs to be hundreds of millions anyway.
Does try to claim it’s Obama’s fault for not being prepared.
Also China’s fault for not allowing Americans in to monitor it.
Doesn’t answer the question about why American numbers are so much higher than everywhere else.
Harris, disappointingly, doesn’t bring up the Pandemic response team that trump dismantled, or the fact that there actually was a team in China already, that trump pulled out.
Claims they didn’t want to cause a panic, which is why they said to stay calm.

Harris: How calm were people when they ran out of toilet paper? How calm were people when they didn’t know if their children should be in school or not? There was a lot of panic because there was no leadership and no plan.
Pence: Tries to defend the American People. The American People are brave. We shut down businesses. (No, Pence, you didn’t. Several governors did, that’s why the exponential curve was arrested. You didn’t do shit.)
He tried to switch again – “when you said the American people failed” (no, that’s not what she said)f He keeps rephrasing her attacks on him as attacks on the American People.
She’s not attacking the American people, Pence, just you.

And so it begins.
Susan Page is moderating. She goes over the rules, basically the same as the president debate.
There will be plexiglass between them.
They will be held to 2 minutes. It will be strictly enforced.
There will not be a repeat of the president’s nonsense.
Everyone will have a mask. Period. Heh, I guess they learned after all.
They (I don’t know the people introducing the debate) are playing up that Kamala doesn’t have experience in debates, but current VP does. (uhhh… she was a prosecutor. I’m pretty sure she’s familiar with the concept assholes).
They also mention how much Pence has prepared (unlike Donald, I guess they’re saying). They don’t mention what if anything Harris has done to prepare.

They reiterated that there will be facemasks again.
They reiterated that there will be no interruptions. (We’ll see. They might be right, Pence isn’t quite as unaware of everything around him as Donald is)

Once again, I will be live-blogging the debates here. Watch this space. 
As before, this is not going to be terribly in-depth coverage, and I’m not going to be doing a lot of fact checking. This is just going to be my reactions, commentary as it goes, and some description of what they’re talking about. Mostly, as before, I am going to be writing because I know the alternative is screaming.

Also, don’t expect some fake “fair and balanced” reporting here. I have no intention of giving equal weight to the informed and uninformed sides of any question.

Wallace: Final question.
Trump won't let him ask it.
Trump finally shuts up.
Wallace says it could be days or weeks before everything is counted. "Will you urge your supporters to stay calm and wait for them to be counted?"

Trump: I am urging them to go into the polls to watch to make sure people who aren't supposed to vote aren't. I sent people into the polls in Philadelphia and they were thrown out because it is rigged and I am treated very unfairly.

Biden: Yes. As you pointed out, many of them can't even open until election day. Also, points out that military has been voting by mail since the civil war. Nobody has found widespread fraud. He will accept the outcome. And so will trump, whether he thinks so or not. (hah!)

Post debate comments: Commentator says that this was basically a food fight. Other commentator, Chuck, disagrees, and says it's a train wreck, and it's a train wreck because that's all that trump knows how to do. Apparently, a large number of people just turned it off.
I lost half the audience here as well. Of the four in my household, only two of us made it to the end.

Wallace: What will you do about climate change: What do you believe about the science of climate change?
Trump: I want crystal clear water and pure air. Keeps saying that. Also goes on about forests. "We don't clean out trees when they fall down"

Wallace: What do you believe about the science of climate change? He tries to get him to say whether he believes in anthropogenic climate change.
Trump: I want clean water. We need forest management. Fires are because of lack of management.
So if you believe in man made climate change, why did you roll back fuel economy standards, and climate change actions?
Then rambles on incoherently about how cars are too expensive because they have computers all over them. (Huh?)

Biden: There aren't going to be more coal and oil plants built. Renewable is the energy of the future. It will stimulate the economy, not tank it. The federal fleet switching to all electric alone will create thousands of jobs.
Says he WILL rejoin Paris accord. Because without it, too much damage is being done. Points out Brazil - he'd lobby for international cooperation (and funding) to save them.

Biden: Has several details on his plan. All these changes will create jobs. When the federal government updates buildings or gives tax credits for new construction, it creates jobs. That helps, not hurts the economy.
He then goes on to talk about how much just reacting to issues costs more without creating lasting jobs.

Trump rambles incoherently for a long time, ignoring biden and wallace.
Wallace, finally: Biden, please answer his final question.
Biden: What was his final question? It's hard to tell in all that random rambling.
Wallace agrees! Then asks, Green New Deal, do you support it?
Biden: No. (Boo! Support it, you jerk! -Pat)
Trump says Biden really does support it. "Yes you do! Yes you do!"

Q: How will you ensure election security?
Biden points out no evidence of election tampering via mail in ballots. Says that trump himself uses mail in ballots. Lists other specific methods to make sure everybody can vote, including more polling locations and increased funding to keep them safe.
"He cannot stop you from determining the outcome of the election"
"If he loses, he'll leave. He can't stay in power no matter what he wants."

Trump: There's been no transition. I won the election. (What?) There was no transition because crooked Hillary tried a coup. (What?) We caught you. We caught you. There was no transition.
Repeats lies about election fraud through the mail, and claims everybody gets a ballot no matter what, they're just sent out indiscriminately.
"They're losing 30 or 40%. It's fraud. It's a rigged election."

Wallace: Calls out his lies. Wow. A quarter of the people in 2018 mailed in their ballots and they didn't find significant fraud.
trump: They threw out millions of ballots in 2016. "Mailmen are selling ballots"
Biden: "No they're not"

(I hadn't heard the one about mail carriers selling ballots before. I don't know if it's something right wing media has been promoting for a while, or if he just now made it up.)

I missed about ten minutes or so because the internet went out. When I got back, they were apparently talking about Trump's plan to stop teaching about bad things in America's past, like slavery or Japanese internment.

Trump: They were teaching people that our country was horrible, and making people hate our country.
Biden: No, that's not it at all. There is racism. Trump is racist. People like him look down on people, like Irish Catholics like me, also poor people, and people with a different skin color.
Trump: There was racism during Obama, not now. And crime is down because of me.
Biden: Violent crime went down 17% during our administration. It went up during his.
Trump: We went down more.

Chris: Next topic, law and order. You say crime is down, but violent crime has gone up. And it's in republican cities as well as democratic cities.

Trump: Under biden, suburbs would be gone.
Biden: You wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn. This isn't the 1950s, your racist dog whistles won't work. (Yep, he said this, that's not me paraphrasing this time.)

Wallace: Do you support defunding police?
Biden: No. (Boo!) Trump's budget reduces it, though. We need community policing, and more psychiatrists. (Not nearly enough, Joe! -Pat)
Trump: That's not what you mean! You don't have any law enforcement groups supporting you.

Wallace: OK, enough of that. (Hah! He's just giving up now). What about the protests, some of which are riots. Biden, have you called the democrats and demanded them to bring in the national guard?
Biden: No, that would be inappropriate, since I'm not in public office. (Also would be exactly the wrong thing to do! -Pat)

Biden: His own spokesperson said that riots help his numbers.
"I don't know who said that."
"I do."
"Well I don't."
"It was Kellyanne Conway."
"I don't think she said that"
"It doesn't matter what you think. She did."

Wallace: Are you willing to condemn white supremacists?
Trump: All the violence is from the left wing.
Biden points out his own people say right wing terrorism is the real problem.
Trump says they're wrong. "They have very bad ideas."
Biden calls him out on it. "You say everybody who doesn't tell you what you want to hear has very bad ideas. You have no idea."
Trump wants again claims that all his judge openings are because Obama didn't think to fill them.
Biden doesn't call him out on the reason they were open. I wish he would have.

Biden brings up the bounty on American soldiers. Trump tries to interrupt. Wallace calls him out and asks if he wants to address it. Trump shuts up for a several seconds.

Trump: tries to repeat lies about Hunter Biden, Biden points out he's lying.

Continuing on Covid:
Trump: 2 million would be dead if Biden had been in charge. Now we are doing record business. 10 million people are back to work and nobody's ever seen that before.
They have to open the states! Only I want to open them. Calls out divorce, alcoholism, says that Biden wants to close down the whole country.

Wallace: s this a V-shaped or a K-shaped recovery? What's the difference?
Biden: Billionaires, and millionaires like him are doing really well. Other people? Not as well.
trump interrupts. Doesn't like Biden's mention of his taxes.
Biden: "Why aren't schools open? Because it costs money to open safely. He wouldn't even approve money for masks for teachers."
Trump: "People want their schools open." Still no mention of how. He can't say how because he has no plan.
Trump: "I brought back football! That was me! People of Ohio are very proud of me."

Wallace: Brings up taxes. $750 per year. What about income tax? Is this true?

Trump: I paid millions of dollars of income taxes. I paid 38 million.
Biden interrupts this time: "Show us your tax returns"
Trump: I will! I am extremely under-leveraged because I'm a very good businessman"
Wallace: Will you tell us how much you paid.
Trump: Millions of dollars. I paid millions of dollars. And you'll see it.
Biden: When?

Trump then goes on to say that all his tax breaks were because of Obama. He took advantage of them because he's smart. So, he's smart because he doesn't pay taxes, but at the same time it's fake news that he doesn't and also it's Obama's fault. Hm.

Wallace: What about the economy?" The Biden tax plan raises taxes. Is it too much?
Biden says his plan raises corporate tax rate and individual taxes on over $400,000/year.
He doesn't mention changes to capital gains.

And then the internet goes out. I have Comcast, so this happens from time to time. It's been doing it all day today. At this point, though, it's almost an act of mercy.

Wallace: "What about swine flu?"
Biden: 14,000 died. We didn't have a recession. We took action. It was horrible. But it wasn't anywhere near 200,000
I was disappointed he didn't point out that they came up with a pandemic response team because of it, which trump promptly dismantled.

Biden: We don't trust that there'll be a vaccine in two weeks.

Wallace: All your top scientists have contradicted you. Are they wrong?
Trump: I don't speak to the scientists, I talked to the companies, and they're right. (sniff)
He isn't sniffing as much as he has in past debates, but still a little bit.

Biden: You said, it'll be gone by easter. You mentioned injecting bleach.
"I was saying it sarcastically!"
"Hopefully we will have a vaccine, but the scientists said it'll be at least summer"

Biden: Yes, you can trust the scientists. Most of them don't work for him, their jobs don't depend on him. You can trust them. Not him.

Donald goes off on the economy, (his economy - the best ever) - and claims biden isn't smart like he is.

Wallace: Can we reopen?
Biden: You need a plan! You can't just say they're opening, you need a plan. You need the money, you need to provide PPE. We all want to reopen, but you need a plan.
trump: He wants to shut down the country, and I want to open it. That's what's important.

Wallace: What about masks? Are you questioning the effectiveness of masks?
Trump: No. I wear one when it's necessary, not like him that always has one.
Biden: Masks make a big difference -- his own CDC head said that if we just all did masks and social distancing from the beginning

Trump: We have had no problem with disease spread at my rallies. Tremendous crowds. 35, 40 thousand. No issues.
Nobody called him out on that. Again, I was disappointed that Biden didn't point out all the incidents of covid linked to trump's rallies.
Biden: Note how he stays far away from the crowd. He's not worried about you, just himself.